WABDL WORLD SUGGESTIONS

[BRENTSGTROCKHOWARD]

I have run some of these by Gus but want to solicit other feedback. Firstly THE PREVIOUS DAYS LIFTING NEEDS TO BE PUT UP IN A TIMELY MANNER, AND IN A CENTRALLY LOCATED, EASY TO FIND PLACE. When I was turning in my third attempt at worlds last year, I was informed "Hey Rock, by the way there was a guy that competed a long time ago, and his lifts are counting in the Open and he did a 751" I had to jump from 705 to 755 to win, where as if I knew ahead of time what he had done I would have taken it on a second, that is ONE example.

I have argued with Gus on this one, I feel a lifter, use me as an example, a lifter that is a submaster, or law fire, that choses to lift in the open, should have those lifts count for WORLD RECORDS, NOT PLACINGS IN THOSE DIVISIONS BUT WORLD RECORDS. The IPF does this and every other fed does, why not Wabdl? Why should I have to take a trophy away from someone in the Law Fire or Submaster to set a WR? I could go on and on but you get the idea.

We should have an OPEN TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP, with OPEN lifters only, lets try COUNTRY VS COUNTRY. Finland......send your best team, Team USA could consist of Richard, Tony, Tom, two great 165ers, myself, Holloway to name a few. It would be a FRIENDLY competition and add to the fun that is indeed the OPEN division.

Who has won the most open world titles in bench or deadlift? I will be curious to see the answer to this, I truly do not know.

Semper Fi

[Hudson]

Some very good suggestions, Brent, especially regarding posting previous days' results. That's very important.

I would disagree with the Open-only team competition, however, on two counts. First, having put together two winning team rosters for WABDL Worlds myself, I can tell you that it is TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH to win the team title when most of the lifters available for one's roster will indeed be in competitive weight classes and divisions. But, hey . . . that's part of the challenge. I think this makes WABDL Worlds team competition rather unique. In recent years we've had teams representing countries, states, gyms, high schools, and universities. This leads to my second objection: the WABDL team rules highlight the very essence of WABDL, which is that in this federation we strive to treat all lifters, whether novice or experienced, equally. There are superstar lifters in WABDL, but they should always be treated just the same as we treat the average joe (or josephine). Even if we have two team competitions--one for Open-only and the other for everyone else--the non-Open team championship is diminished, I believe.

A possible improvement, though, would be to use my bonus point system, which is currently available in the case of ties, for regular team scoring. The bonus point system awards up to six bonus points to lifters who beat out others in their weight class. For example, first place is 20 points. First place in a weight class with four lifters is 20 points plus 3 bonus points for 23 total points. In a very competitive class with 8 lifters first place becomes 20 points plus 6 bonus points for 26 total. Second place in the same weight class would be 16 points plus six bonus points for a total of 22 points. Thus, teams are rewarded for putting lifters on their roster who will face some competition. This system encourages more competition while maintaining the egalitarian spirit of WABDL.

[Shawn Rainey]

I agree completely on the posted results from prevous days

The Team thing I do like but at the same time it does deminish from other teams.

[BRENTSGTROCKHOWARD]

ALL other true worlds have it, like IPF etc, we need to get on board guys, to try and make it a more universal show. NO one has chimed in on who is the winningest open lifter in wabdl history? Its easy to find that stat for the IPF etc, but I cant find it for WABDL, can someone help? I would also disagree with the open team diminishing the other teams. The hardest division to win is undoubtedly the OPEN, it is the ONLY division ANYONE can enter, to make it more competitive a team trophy would surely make it much more fun to watch. I would personally love to see the Finns vs USA as a for instance. The team trophy is somewhat dimished anyhow, SOME teams just find divisions with no lifters and fill that slot. A TRUE BIG TIME team title would be won in the open where a certain state, country, or club sends its best to compete against a competitors best, the essence of competition. We can argue it all day long, I know it wont be put in place but I wanted to put it out there. The OPEN world title is the most coveted title, I have much respect for ALL the winners, but the OPEN title means just that, you took on ALL comers in your wt class, and won. Not age, not a specialty divison, but ALL comers. If you are looking for extra competition, just enter yourself in the open, and if you win, you can call yourself the WABDL WORLD CHAMPION.

Semper Fi

[Hudson]

Typically Open is the most competitive division . . . not always, but typically. I won Master 40-46 in bench for my weight class last year. I didn't enter open as I used the extra entry fee to pay for one of my junior lifters to enter the meet. But my bench would have won Open by about 50 pounds. In fact, sometimes it's Master 40-46 and even 47-53 that's been super competitive in recent years. One of the things that makes WABDL special is the inclusivity of Worlds: we all lift on the same platform, literally and figuratively. If you win first place in any division, you can indeed call yourself a WABDL World Champion. That's what WABDL is about.

I know where you're coming from, Brent. But I'm very sure Gus isn't going to make any changes to the team competition that has the appearance of diminishing the accomplishments of the grass-roots WABDL lifters, most of whom do their competing in their age divisions. IPF and other feds have their rules for team competition, and we have ours. It's true that some clubs seems to go out of their way to locate lifters who will most likely lift uncontested and therefore have easy shots at the 20 first-place points for each lifter. That's the downside of the team rules; the upside is that clubs, states, countries, and schools can be represented, unlike in other feds. The challenge for us when I lived in Illinois was to come up with a roster of Junior, Open, Teen, and a few Master lifters that would be competitive under those rules. We did that and it was a great accomplishment. And I can tell you that all but one of our lifters were uncontested. They had to earn their placings.

I don't think you are suggesting that we totally do away with non-Open teams; that would of course be totally antithetical to all that WABDL is about. If I'm understanding you correctly, you would like to have an Open team competition and then perhaps another team trophy for everyone else. That would essentially separate the teams into major and minor leagues. Again, I think that would violate the egalitarian spirit of WABDL. We are about the grass-roots lifter. We don't elevate any one group of lifters above anyone else and treat them like superstars. Last year we had teams of great lifters from numerous states, a number of clubs, and several countries. The rules are very different from other feds, but we all had a great time competing under those rules. This year I'll be bringing my collegiate team to compete against the best teams in WABDL. My lifters will be in some very competitive teen and junior weight classes, so it will be very challenging. My lifters wouldn't have such an opportunity to represent their university at an IPF or other federation world meet. They don't want to compete for a minor league, non-open team title; they want to compete for the WABDL World team title.

I was disappointed, Brent, that you didn't give any feedback on my bonus point system. In fact, I would encourage your specific feedback on any the points I've made. That's what dialogue is all about.

In fact, just for fun, I'll give you a challenge: put together a roster of your lifters under WABDL team rules and let's see if your team can place above my team at Worlds this year. If you can beat my team, I'll buy you dinner.

[Ryano]

You can't have an Open team when the WABDL has "Elite" Open, where those lifters can't compete in Open. Open lifters don't lift enough to qualify for Elite. The U.S. is probably the only country that has enough "Elite" Open lifters to field a team.

[Shawn Rainey]

You can't have an Open team when the WABDL has "Elite" Open, where those lifters can't compete in Open. Open lifters don't lift enough to qualify for Elite. The U.S. is probably the only country that has enough "Elite" Open lifters to field a team.

Yeah this tosses in a new problem I thought about this the other night as well. and its only in the bench not deadlift. So maybe somone will know, what sparked the whole Elite class anyways, why not just keep it open?

[Hudson]

Shawn, my understanding was that Gus felt that a handful of benchers had mastered the shirt to such a degree that they were pushing the Open records into the outer limits. The Elite Open division was an attempt, I think, to put the super benchers in a division of their own. There are still alot of tremendous benchers in the other divisions . . . such as Big Roger who posted above . . . who are world class but haven't hit those "Elite" Open numbers yet. Roger, by the way, still has the highest bench for anyone over the age of 50. He's still ahead of me and I'm about ten years younger and nearly 20 pounds heavier.

[TracyLundin]

Shawn,

Stop and catch your breath for a minute... I'm a fairly new lifter in WABDL and have actually only lifted "heavy" for 6 months with a freebar. When I started lifting I noticed some of the records and thought... "Maybe I could break those". If I were to see just the people who were "Elite" lifters I'm sure that I would say... "I'm never going to be able to compete with those guys and just lift at home". There are people who lift and aren't in a certain class like Elite who would like to think they have a chance to "win" a competition. For instance there are people who have just begun to lift that are in their mid 40's or people who just will never be Elite status for one reason or another. Like me for instance... I'll never be Elite, but I like to think I can set a couple of records and "win" a competition. I think I would be bored to see the same few people win all the top awards every single year... I do like to see "elite" lifts now and again though. Just my 2 cents...

[RWHarris]

Brent,
I'll have to give some more thought to the idea that Open lifters can't be eligible for standings (only records) in the other divisions. It could just inhibit some talented Masters to forego entering the Open. Like I said, will give that one some more thought and get back to you.

As for an Open only team competition, I like the concept. It could be essentially a seperate division from the current "all-around" team competitions and would in no way diminish them. In fact, why not permit dual team entries... That is a lifter on a roster for an Open Only Team could also be on an All-Around team roster. That way neither division would be diminished by the other.

Same concept could be supplied to the Elite class lifter. Their lifts could count for Open team results without impacting the individual open results. Let's face it an Open Only team competions is by nature an "elite" competition.

Just some thoughts. Basicly I feel that the details could be worked out to provide for an Open Only team competition that does not adversly affect the current team competion structure.

Robert Harris
Las Vegas, NV